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Interviews

A Region of the Spirit: An Interview with Carlos Franz

By Jonathan Blitzer
Translated from Spanish by the author

Jonathan Blitzer: The stories that appear in La Prisionera, which you have recently presented here in Madrid, take place in the imaginary city of Pampa Hundida, which also exists in your novels. What is Pampa Hundida? Where is it situated, and how was it founded?

Carlos Franz: Pampa Hundida is, above all, a region of the spirit, a mental space where desire runs up against obligation. Geographically, it is an oasis in the middle of the Atacama Desert, the driest desert in the world. It is a small and isolated city, but is connected to the world through modern means, although through some very antiquated ones as well: there is a sanctuary there where hundreds of thousands of people go each year to celebrate a religious festival, for instance. I believe Pampa Hundida synthesizes elements of Latin American modernity: the mixture of advancement and the persistence of certain vices. Young businessmen and drug dealers with satellite phones—both partake of a kind of intense and popular mestizo religiosity (both Christian and pagan). I “founded” the city in my novel El desierto (The Absent Sea, McPherson, New York, 2011), where I needed a symbolic space that was appropriate for a modern tragedy.

JB: You have also written a book of essays about Santiago, in which you offer a portrait of the city constructed through seventy Chilean novels from the twentieth century, and you´ve given it the subtitle “imaginary city.” What is it about the subject of how cities are seen and imagined that´s of such interest to you?

CF: The current tendency to accept as a fact the notion that we are all citizens of a “global village” seems ridiculous to me. Each day there are fewer citizens, in the political sense of being active members of a polis. What there are, though, are consumers in a global market, a majority of them passive. For that reason, I think, I´m interested in real cities—but as “books.” Cities can be read as dramas where public and private lives constantly intersect. We can read in these cities our own conflicts between identity and “globalness,” our desire for the future and our sense of belonging, or not, to a tradition.

JB: How old were you when you first left Chile? And where did you leave for?

CF: I have spent most of my life in Chile. Although I was born in Switzerland and moved to Santiago when I was eleven, my family is Chilean, going back several generations. In my forties I went to live in Berlin, and later London and Madrid. It´s now been eleven years and I´m considering returning to Chile, without the least bit of longing for the place. I believe I am yet another case in a Latin American tradition of constant emigration. My European forebears went to Chile, where they mixed with criollos and indigenous peoples, and later they left, once again, to reenter the rest of the world. Other examples are the forty-five million Hispanic-Americans in the US.

JB: How important has it been to live outside of Chile?

CF: It is a well-established fact that we know our own countries better from afar. And I think this has helped me better understand my own. But the biggest revelation amidst this distance has been to discover myself as a Latin American. The Latin American cultural community is something very real, real and much more complex than the simplifications that are sometimes fashioned of it in Europe or the US. Living abroad, I´ve discovered that I´m Latin American, or Hispanic American because Spain is part of our cultural identity, another province in that community. While one lives in a Latin American country, he feels, alongside his neighbors, all the differences, which seem important. But on finding myself in the Hispano-American émigré community in Europe, I´ve discovered that these differences are artificial. What we have in common— the language, culture, and racial mestizaje—make us far more similar than our differences render us different. The nationalisms that have divided us were an invention of criollo oligarchies, which in the wake of the various independence movements invented, and thus divided, nations they could then dominate in a system akin to caciques. Today nationalism is, unfortunately, one of the main illnesses afflicting Latin American politics; from afar this is very clear.

JB: You wrote your third novel, El desierto, from Berlin. And the novel deals with the subject of transitions and confrontations with the past, which has a certain resonance in Germany. How does this compare with the experience of living in Spain? Have you found that the Spanish case has captured, or triggered, your imagination in any particular way?

CF: My experience in Germany was essential for me to better understand the subjects at the heart of The Absent Sea. Especially the complex matter of “collective guilt.” In Spain, I´ve encountered some interesting parallels to the Chilean case. The three years of the Allende government were like those initial years of the Spanish Republic, a galvanizing movement and at the same time a very chaotic one. For its part, the Pinochet dictatorship was inspired by Franco’s. And, finally, the transitions to democracy in Spain and Chile have followed similar courses, marked both by successes and difficulties. But much more important than all this has been putting in check my own version of the Spanish language, subjected to the constant challenge of different Latin American dialects that are heard here in Madrid along with the Spanish dialects themselves and their variants. It is an enlivening experience for a writer: to see that in the end no one is master of the language and that you have the freedom and the challenge to invent one for yourself.

JB: Originally you were thinking about moving to Barcelona, but you decided to live here in Madrid . . .?

CF: A Catalonian government employee told me that my four-year-old daughter would have to study only in Catalan. It surprised me a great deal that the public school system of a Spanish community was not offering the option to study in Spanish, or at least a mixed-language scenario. I do not like states that limit in that way the cultural freedom of their citizens. Barcelona seems to me a beautiful city to visit, but not particularly attractive as a place to live. Catalonian nationalism is no different than other fanaticisms.

JB: Who are your favorite writers? Who would you count among your influences?

CF: One of the few advantages of being an autodidact is to be able to read without preconceived theories. And so it is always a surprise, finding influences without limitations. Of course, I´m a product of reading the great Latin Americans, like Borges and Vargas Llosa, but I also have a preference for Anglo-Saxon literature, especially that which transgresses national boundaries. Henry James and Joseph Conrad, for instance. I also love literature that challenges the notion of national identity. Huckleberry Finn and Moby-Dick strike me as such incursions into human prejudices. As a foreigner, I feel it’s a limitation to consider these only as “great American novels.”

JB: Your work has been translated into several other languages, but never English. What does it mean to you, if anything, being translated into English? One of your novels is due out in English this spring . . .

CF: McPherson & Co. will be publishing at the end of April my novel El desierto under the title The Absent Sea, translated by Leland Chambers. It means a lot to me, as English is my second language as a reader and because I admire some of its narrative traditions, as I mentioned earlier. It was also a challenge to break the “sound barrier” in the Anglo-Saxon edition. English is forever becoming more closed-off to translations, compared to German, French, or Spanish. It is a clear show of arrogance and cultural impoverishment. The old concept of a Weltliteratur, or world literature, which Goethe wanted, depends on a constant flow of translations. When a culture sees itself as self-sufficient, and translates very little, it grows isolated from world literature. The exercise of comparing imaginations across cultures is vital for us if we are to realize that our own dreams are not the only ones possible.

JB: Could you say a few words about your story, “Spaniards Lost in America”?

CF: The story is part of a series of fictions situated in the imaginary city of Pampa Hundida. In this case, it is a comic drama about emigration, the solitude of the uprooted, and the egoism and greed that often characterize immigrants who are already settled in somewhere, when they turn their backs on others who are like them but have only recently arrived. An amusing satire, I hope.

English Spanish (Original)

Jonathan Blitzer: The stories that appear in La Prisionera, which you have recently presented here in Madrid, take place in the imaginary city of Pampa Hundida, which also exists in your novels. What is Pampa Hundida? Where is it situated, and how was it founded?

Carlos Franz: Pampa Hundida is, above all, a region of the spirit, a mental space where desire runs up against obligation. Geographically, it is an oasis in the middle of the Atacama Desert, the driest desert in the world. It is a small and isolated city, but is connected to the world through modern means, although through some very antiquated ones as well: there is a sanctuary there where hundreds of thousands of people go each year to celebrate a religious festival, for instance. I believe Pampa Hundida synthesizes elements of Latin American modernity: the mixture of advancement and the persistence of certain vices. Young businessmen and drug dealers with satellite phones—both partake of a kind of intense and popular mestizo religiosity (both Christian and pagan). I “founded” the city in my novel El desierto (The Absent Sea, McPherson, New York, 2011), where I needed a symbolic space that was appropriate for a modern tragedy.

JB: You have also written a book of essays about Santiago, in which you offer a portrait of the city constructed through seventy Chilean novels from the twentieth century, and you´ve given it the subtitle “imaginary city.” What is it about the subject of how cities are seen and imagined that´s of such interest to you?

CF: The current tendency to accept as a fact the notion that we are all citizens of a “global village” seems ridiculous to me. Each day there are fewer citizens, in the political sense of being active members of a polis. What there are, though, are consumers in a global market, a majority of them passive. For that reason, I think, I´m interested in real cities—but as “books.” Cities can be read as dramas where public and private lives constantly intersect. We can read in these cities our own conflicts between identity and “globalness,” our desire for the future and our sense of belonging, or not, to a tradition.

JB: How old were you when you first left Chile? And where did you leave for?

CF: I have spent most of my life in Chile. Although I was born in Switzerland and moved to Santiago when I was eleven, my family is Chilean, going back several generations. In my forties I went to live in Berlin, and later London and Madrid. It´s now been eleven years and I´m considering returning to Chile, without the least bit of longing for the place. I believe I am yet another case in a Latin American tradition of constant emigration. My European forebears went to Chile, where they mixed with criollos and indigenous peoples, and later they left, once again, to reenter the rest of the world. Other examples are the forty-five million Hispanic-Americans in the US.

JB: How important has it been to live outside of Chile?

CF: It is a well-established fact that we know our own countries better from afar. And I think this has helped me better understand my own. But the biggest revelation amidst this distance has been to discover myself as a Latin American. The Latin American cultural community is something very real, real and much more complex than the simplifications that are sometimes fashioned of it in Europe or the US. Living abroad, I´ve discovered that I´m Latin American, or Hispanic American because Spain is part of our cultural identity, another province in that community. While one lives in a Latin American country, he feels, alongside his neighbors, all the differences, which seem important. But on finding myself in the Hispano-American émigré community in Europe, I´ve discovered that these differences are artificial. What we have in common— the language, culture, and racial mestizaje—make us far more similar than our differences render us different. The nationalisms that have divided us were an invention of criollo oligarchies, which in the wake of the various independence movements invented, and thus divided, nations they could then dominate in a system akin to caciques. Today nationalism is, unfortunately, one of the main illnesses afflicting Latin American politics; from afar this is very clear.

JB: You wrote your third novel, El desierto, from Berlin. And the novel deals with the subject of transitions and confrontations with the past, which has a certain resonance in Germany. How does this compare with the experience of living in Spain? Have you found that the Spanish case has captured, or triggered, your imagination in any particular way?

CF: My experience in Germany was essential for me to better understand the subjects at the heart of The Absent Sea. Especially the complex matter of “collective guilt.” In Spain, I´ve encountered some interesting parallels to the Chilean case. The three years of the Allende government were like those initial years of the Spanish Republic, a galvanizing movement and at the same time a very chaotic one. For its part, the Pinochet dictatorship was inspired by Franco’s. And, finally, the transitions to democracy in Spain and Chile have followed similar courses, marked both by successes and difficulties. But much more important than all this has been putting in check my own version of the Spanish language, subjected to the constant challenge of different Latin American dialects that are heard here in Madrid along with the Spanish dialects themselves and their variants. It is an enlivening experience for a writer: to see that in the end no one is master of the language and that you have the freedom and the challenge to invent one for yourself.

JB: Originally you were thinking about moving to Barcelona, but you decided to live here in Madrid . . .?

CF: A Catalonian government employee told me that my four-year-old daughter would have to study only in Catalan. It surprised me a great deal that the public school system of a Spanish community was not offering the option to study in Spanish, or at least a mixed-language scenario. I do not like states that limit in that way the cultural freedom of their citizens. Barcelona seems to me a beautiful city to visit, but not particularly attractive as a place to live. Catalonian nationalism is no different than other fanaticisms.

JB: Who are your favorite writers? Who would you count among your influences?

CF: One of the few advantages of being an autodidact is to be able to read without preconceived theories. And so it is always a surprise, finding influences without limitations. Of course, I´m a product of reading the great Latin Americans, like Borges and Vargas Llosa, but I also have a preference for Anglo-Saxon literature, especially that which transgresses national boundaries. Henry James and Joseph Conrad, for instance. I also love literature that challenges the notion of national identity. Huckleberry Finn and Moby-Dick strike me as such incursions into human prejudices. As a foreigner, I feel it’s a limitation to consider these only as “great American novels.”

JB: Your work has been translated into several other languages, but never English. What does it mean to you, if anything, being translated into English? One of your novels is due out in English this spring . . .

CF: McPherson & Co. will be publishing at the end of April my novel El desierto under the title The Absent Sea, translated by Leland Chambers. It means a lot to me, as English is my second language as a reader and because I admire some of its narrative traditions, as I mentioned earlier. It was also a challenge to break the “sound barrier” in the Anglo-Saxon edition. English is forever becoming more closed-off to translations, compared to German, French, or Spanish. It is a clear show of arrogance and cultural impoverishment. The old concept of a Weltliteratur, or world literature, which Goethe wanted, depends on a constant flow of translations. When a culture sees itself as self-sufficient, and translates very little, it grows isolated from world literature. The exercise of comparing imaginations across cultures is vital for us if we are to realize that our own dreams are not the only ones possible.

JB: Could you say a few words about your story, “Spaniards Lost in America”?

CF: The story is part of a series of fictions situated in the imaginary city of Pampa Hundida. In this case, it is a comic drama about emigration, the solitude of the uprooted, and the egoism and greed that often characterize immigrants who are already settled in somewhere, when they turn their backs on others who are like them but have only recently arrived. An amusing satire, I hope.

Una Región del Espíritu

(1)   Los cuentos de La Prisionera, que usted acaba de presentar aquí en Madrid, se ocurren en la ciudad imaginaria de Pampa Hundida que también existe en sus novelas.  ¿Qué es Pampa Hundida?  ¿Dónde se ubica, digamos, y como se fundó?

Pampa Hundida es, sobre todo, una región del espíritu. Un espacio mental donde se enfrentan el deseo con el deber. Geográficamente, es un oasis en medio del desierto de Atacama, el más seco del mundo. Una ciudad pequeña y aislada. Pero conectada al mundo por los medios modernos. Y los más ancestrales: en ella hay un santuario al que anualmente acuden cientos de miles de personas para celebrar una fiesta religiosa.

Creo que Pampa Hundida sintetiza bien la modernidad latinoamericana: la mezcla de adelantos y vicios. Empresarios jóvenes y narcotraficantes con teléfonos satelitales, participan ambos de una intensa religiosidad popular mestiza (cristianismo y paganismo).

La “fundé” en mi novela “El desierto” (‘The absent sea’, McPherson, NY, 2011) donde necesitaba un espacio simbólico, apropiado para una tragedia moderna.

 (2) También ha escrito un libro de ensayo sobre Santiago, que tiene el subtitulo “ciudad imaginaria,” [en que usted retrata la ciudad a través de unas setenta novelas chilenas del siglo XX]. ¿Por qué le ha interesado tanto el tema de cómo se ven y se imaginan las ciudades?

La tendencia actual a dar por hecho que todos somos ciudadanos de una “aldea global” me parece ridícula. Cada vez hay menos ciudadanos, en el sentido político –miembros activos de una polis. Lo que hay son consumidores en un mercado global –la mayoría pasivos.

Por eso, creo, me interesan las ciudades reales. Pero como “libros”. Las ciudades pueden leerse como dramas donde se intersectan constantemente la vida pública con las vidas privadas. Podemos leer en ellas nuestros conflictos entre la identidad y la globalidad, nuestro deseo de futuro y nuestra pertenencia, o no, a una tradición.

(2b) ¿Cuántos años tenía cuando se fue del Chile?  ¿Para donde se fue?

He pasado la mayor parte de mi vida en Chile. Aunque nací en Suiza y llegué a vivir a Santiago de Chile a los 11 años, mi familia es chilena de varias generaciones. A mis 40 años me fui a vivir a Berlín, luego Londres y Madrid. Ahora han pasado otros 11 años y estoy pensando en regresar. Sin ninguna nostalgia.

Creo que soy un caso más en una tradición latinoamericana: la emigración constante. Mis antepasados europeos fueron a Chile, se mezclaron con criollos e indígenas, y luego salieron al mundo de nuevo. Ejemplo son los 45 millones de hispanos en EEUU.

(2c) ¿Ha sido importante vivir afuera de Chile?

Está bien probado que conocemos mejor nuestros países desde lejos. Y sí creo que me ha servido para comprender mejor el mío.

Pro la ganancia más importante de esta lejanía ha sido descubrirme latinoamericano. La comunidad cultural latinoamericana es algo real. Real y mucho más complejo que las simplificaciones que a veces se hacen de ella en Europa y los EEUU. Viviendo fuera me he descubierto como latinoamericano. O hispanoamericano, porque España es parte de nuestra identidad cultural, una provincia más en esa comunidad.

Mientras uno vive en algún país latinoamericano percibe diferencias con sus vecinos que parecen importantes. Pero al encontrarme con la comunidad de hispanoamericanos emigrados a Europa descubrimos que esas diferencias son artificiales. Lo que tenemos en común: la lengua, la cultura y el mestizaje racial, nos asemeja mucho más que nuestras diferencias.  Los nacionalismos que nos dividen fueron una invención de las oligarquías criollas que, tras las independencias, inventaron naciones que, así divididas, ellos pudieran dominar como caciques. Hoy el nacionalismo es desgraciadamente una de las principales enfermedades de la política latinoamericana. Desde lejos se ve más claro.

(3a) Escribió su tercera novela, El desierto, desde Berlín.  Y la novela se trata (en parte) del tema de transiciones y enfrentamientos con el pasado, cosa que tenía cierta relevancia en Alemania.  ¿Cómo se compara eso con la experiencia de vivir aquí en España?  ¿Ha encontrado que el caso español también ha sido capaz de captar su imaginación? 

Mi experiencia en Alemania fue esencial para entender mejor los temas de fondo en El desierto. Especialmente el complejo asunto de la “culpa colectiva”. En España he encontrado paralelismos interesantes con la experiencia chilena. Los tres años de Allende fueron como los tres años de la república española de 36, un movimiento esperanzador y muy caótico a la vez. A su vez, la dictadura de Pinochet se inspiró en la de Franco. Por último, la transición a la democracia en España y Chile han seguido rutas paralelas de dificultades y éxitos…

Pero mucho más importante que todo eso ha sido poner en jaque mi propia versión del idioma, sometido al constante desafío de los dialectos latinoamericanos que se escuchan en Madrid y los propios dialectos españoles y sus variantes. Es una experiencia apasionante para un escritor: comprobar que al final nadie es dueño de la lengua y que tienes la libertad y el desafío de inventarte una.

(3b) Originalmente pensaba en irse para Barcelona… ¿Por qué ha elegido vivir en Madrid al final?

Un funcionario catalán me dijo que mi hija de cuatro años tendría que estudiar sólo en catalán. Me sorprendió mucho que el sistema publico de una comunidad española no diera la opción de estudiar en español. O al menos una fórmula mixta. No me gustan los estados que limitan de ese modo la libertad cultural de sus ciudadanos. Barcelona me parece una ciudad muy hermosa para visitarla, pero poco atractiva para vivir en ella. El nacionalismo catalán no es distinto a otros fanatismos.

(4a) ¿Quienes son sus escritores preferidos y inspiradores? ¿Cuáles son sus influencias? 

Una de las pocas ventajas de ser un autodidacta es poder leer sin teorías previas. Y así sorprenderse siempre, eligiendo influencias sin limitarse. Por supuesto, soy hijo de las lecturas de los grandes escritores latinoamericanos, como Borges y Vargas Llosa. Pero también tengo una preferencia por la literatura anglosajona, especialmente la que no respeta fronteras nacionales. Henry James y Joseph Conrad, por ejemplo. Me encanta la literatura que problematiza la identidad nacional. Huckleberry Finn y Moby Dick me parecen viajes a través de los prejuicios humanos. Como extranjero me parece una limitación considerarlas sólo como “grandes novelas americanas”.

(5)  Han traducido su obra a varios idiomas pero todavía no al ingles.  ¿Qué significa para usted ser traducido al ingles (o quizás no signifique nada …)?  ¿Hay una traducción pendiente de una novela suya al ingles, verdad?

McPherson & Co, publicará a fines de Abril de 2011 El Desierto, con el título The absent sea, traducido por Leland Chambers. Significa mucho para mí, porque el inglés es mi segundo idioma de lectura. Y porque admiro algunas de sus tradiciones narrativas, como decía antes.

También era un desafío romper “la barrera del sonido” en la edición anglosajona. El inglés está cada vez más cerrado a las traducciones –comparado con el alemán o el francés o el español. Es una clara muestra de arrogancia y empobrecimiento cultural. El viejo concepto de una Weltliteratur (literatura mundial) que quería Goethe, dependía de un constante movimiento de traducciones. Cuando una cultura se cree autosuficiente y traduce poco se aísla de la literatura mundial. El ejercicio de comparar imaginaciones es vital para darnos cuenta de que nuestros sueños no son los únicos posibles.

Por eso, me parece valiente la apuesta de McPherson. Y me siento orgulloso de estar en una editorial independiente que acaba de ganar en 2010 el NBA en ficción (Lord of Misrule, de Jaimy Gordon).

(6)  ¿Puede ofrecer un breve comentario sobre el cuento, “Españoles perdidos en América”? 

Es parte de la serie de ficciones situadas en la ciudad imaginaria de Pampa Hundida. En este caso es un drama cómico acerca de la emigración, la soledad de los desplazados, y el egoísmo y avaricia que ha menudo caracteriza a los inmigrantes ya asentados, cuando vuelven la espalda a otros como ellos, pero recién llegados. Una sátira divertida, espero.

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